The Federal Council's press release of March 1 states that the cultural dispatch was generally well received in the consultation process. Priorities have been defined for each of the six fields of action (culture as a working environment, updating cultural promotion, digital transformation in culture, culture as a dimension of sustainability, cultural heritage as a living memory and cooperation in the cultural sector).

CHF 987 million has been earmarked for implementation, CHF 14 million less than in the consultation draft. The dispatch now goes to parliament for discussion.

The original press release, the dispatch and the report on the results of the consultation are available at under this link to find.

 

The Emmental is associated with cheese, sumptuous cuisine in country inns and Jeremias Gotthelf. But not necessarily Beethoven. Yet in Langnau, a main town in the Emmental with around 9,000 inhabitants, there is currently a Beethoven cycle with all of his symphonies, which will be performed in 2027, the bicentenary of the composer's death, with the Ninth will end. This ambitious project will not be performed by guest orchestras, but by the Langnau orchestraa formation of highly motivated amateurs.

The artistic level is astonishingly high and refutes the opinion that a Beethoven symphony is only for highly subsidized orchestras and people who easily pay 300 francs for the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in Lucerne. Langnau is proof that you can also have it in the village. A small slip-up here or a hesitant effort there is irrelevant, the joy of playing makes up for the lack of technical excellence. The monumental Eroicawhich was on the program a year ago, was probably the ultimate baptism of fire for the orchestra in dealing with Beethoven's orchestral technique and decisively advanced it on the way to the characteristic "Beethoven tone".

Fearless concert programs

The programs, which are put together by conductor Christoph Metzger in consultation with the orchestra, make some municipal philharmonic orchestras look old with their impartiality. A year ago, the Eroica a contrasting program with Mauricio Kagel's Ten marches to fall short of victoryand now, at the beginning of February, the Fourth in an attractive combination with the Concert piece for four horns and orchestra by Robert Schumann and the six piano songs op. 13 by Clara Schumann, orchestrated by Masayuki Carvalho. Jeannine Nuspliger found the right tone for the romantic expressive world of the songs, which were composed in the first years of her marriage to Robert Schumann, with a beautifully rounded soprano. The mighty horn quartet in Schumann was led by Hans Stettler, a member of the orchestra for fifty years now; the other three were newcomers.

Solid finances from our own resources

Stettler is also President of the Langnau Concert Society and responsible for organizing the concerts - the orchestra manages itself, there are no paid employees. The orchestra also stands on its own two feet financially, and there is no whining about a lack of subsidies. The musicians are members of the association and pay an annual fee of two to four hundred francs - or more if they wish. Students pay twenty francs a year. There are also many passive members. This covers the operating costs, which are kept low, and the fees of the conductor and concertmaster. The concert income is used to finance the project, including the soloists. The municipality also pays the concert association, under whose umbrella the orchestra, the concert choir and a chamber music series are located, 15,000 francs a year as part of a service contract. Sponsors are rather cautious and prefer to rely on donations from patrons, who then also attend the concerts in the packed Langnau church.

Conductor's stroke of luck

The self-confidence with which music is made in Langnau is impressive. You feel part of an old tradition. The orchestra was founded in 1866, two years before the Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra, and celebrated its 150th anniversary eight years ago. The musicians identify strongly with the orchestra, not least thanks to Christoph Metzger, the artistic director since 2006. "We've never had a conductor with such pedagogical expertise," says Hans Stettler, "he gives us the confidence we need, even for the difficult things." The number of members has grown steadily with him, especially among the wind players. Viola player Marianne Etter-Wey, Head of School and a member for over twenty years, adds: "It's incredibly stimulating to work with Christoph Metzger. You learn a lot and the atmosphere is excellent. Our orchestra motto 'Emotion before perfection' sums it up perfectly."

For her, as for many others, the weekly rehearsals are a welcome counterbalance to her everyday working life, especially with the demanding repertoire, which ranges from Bach's passions to the Third from Brahms to Verdi's Requiem and Le Roi David by Arthur Honegger. And experiments such as with Kagel make for great fun. Thanks to the cooperation with the local music school, there are no problems with recruiting young talent, as the most talented can grow into the orchestra in the long term.

It is healthy structures that keep the Langnau orchestra alive. The basis is formed by clear conditions, solid management, personal commitment and the joy of making music: High culture, grounded in civic democracy. One involuntarily thinks of the dangerous crises of legitimacy to which the institutions in the large centers are exposed, and one catches oneself thinking that the Langnau model could perhaps be more important for the survival of our music than the high-gloss operations in the metropolises that are geared towards top-class consumption.

Sibling syncope is the title of the article on which these detailed interviews are based. It can be read in the Schweizer Musikzeitung 3/2024 from page 16.

Click on the names to go to the corresponding interview.

Andreas and Matthias Tschopp

Christoph and Simon Grab

Florian and Michael Arbenz

Laura and Luzius Schuler

Table of contents

Focus

"I wouldn't have become a musician without you"
Three sisters and their chamber music
A conversation with Andrea, Stefanie and Martina Bischof

Music in the blood
The Kummer family in the Jura

Sibling syncopation
Brothers and sisters from jazz and experimental
Link to the detailed interviews online

My sister's favorite singer
Studies on the structure of musical taste

Clavardon's ...
Camille et Julie Berthollet

 (italics = summary in German of the original French article)

 

Critiques

Reviews of recordings, books, sheet music

 

Echo

Far beyond our own horizons
The tenth Mizmorim Chamber Music Festival

The political use and abuse of music
Commentary on the Mizmorim opening concert by Francesco Biamonte

"Please, I'm trying to talk"
"The art of language in music therapy" with Jürg Halter at the ZHdK

Mendelssohn trouvailles
The piano duo Soós-Haag plays rediscovered cadenzas

Myth-busting
Conference at the HKB

Seiji Ozawa, la fin d'une respiration
The academy he founded in Switzerland planned his departure

Interview with Roman Melish
His recitals in Kyiv

Worlds in sound and image
The 13th Norient Festival

Plea for Enrico Mainardi
Letter to the editor

Basel discusses the distribution of public music funding
Comment

Carte blanche
for Thierry Dagon

Base

Articles and news from the music associations

Swiss Federal Orchestra Association (EOV) / Société Fédérale des Orchestres (SFO)

Konferenz Musikhochschulen Schweiz (KMHS) / Conférence des Hautes Ecoles de Musique Suisse (CHEMS)

Kalaidos University of Music / Kalaidos Haute École de Musique

Swiss Music Council (SMR) / Conseil Suisse de la Musique (CSM)

CHorama

Swiss Society for Music Medicine (SMM) / Association suisse de Médecine de la Musique (SMM)

Swiss Musicological Society (SMG) / Société Suisse de Musicologie (SSM)

Swiss Musicians' Association (SMV) / Union Suisse des Artistes Musiciens (USDAM)

Schweizerischer Musikpädagogischer Verband (SMPV) / Société Suisse de Pédagogie Musicale (SSPM)

SONART - Musicians Switzerland

Swiss Youth Music Competition Foundation (SJMW)

Arosa Culture

SUISA - Cooperative Society of Authors and Publishers of Music

Swiss Association of Music Schools (VMS) / Association Suisse des Écoles de Musique (ASEM)

 

Abbreviated brothers
Puzzle by Pia Schwab

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Order issue for CHF 8.- (+ CHF 2.- shipping costs)

Thanks to the article "Historical, performance, practice" in the January/February 2024 issue of the Swiss Music Newspaper I now know that historical performance practice has been around in Switzerland for 90 years. Because I play the cello, I am naturally interested in what this movement has brought to the interpretation of Johann Sebastian Bach's suites for solo cello. I had my first cello lessons in 1950, and at that time nobody in my home town in West Germany was talking about historical performance practice. But I still remember my teacher taking me to a concert in Frankfurt am Main where Enrico Mainardi played three of the six solo suites from memory. That was the result of years of study and careful formal analysis.

A short time later, the six suites with his fingerings, bowings and formal analysis were published by Schott. In the introduction, Mainardi writes: "The bowings and fingerings of this edition have been determined with the intention of making the 'linear counterpoint', which is the form-giving principle of Bach's cello suites, as clear as possible. I tried to achieve this with the help of the contrast that arises from a deliberate alternation between bound and unbound, as well as by exploiting the different timbres of the four cello strings."

Examples

If one now compares Mainardi's edition with later editions of the suites, one realizes that the pioneering work of this great cellist does not seem to have borne fruit. I would like to illustrate this with two examples from the Leisinger edition (published by Wiener Urtext-Edition). There, the prelude of the 1st suite begins with the first three notes G-d-b being taken on a bow. The major chord is thus emphasized in a Romantic manner. In Mainardi, on the other hand, only the three notes b-a-b are tied in bar 1, and the low G is always set off and taken as the organ point, which is sustained for four bars. Like Leisinger, it is not necessary to have studied three or four different sources to realize that Mainardi understood Bach better.

I take the other example from the Gigue of the 4th Suite in E flat major. Here the Viennese edition has three quavers connected by a bow throughout, i.e.: (1 2 3) (4 5 6) (7 8 9) (10 11 12). Could it be any more boring? It doesn't help if you play with a baroque bow. Mainardi only slurs like this for two bars, after which he breaks the rigid pattern, and in bars 7 and 8 he slurs like this: (1 2 3) 4 (5 6) (7 8 9) 10 (11 12), and in bar 9 again differently, namely (1 2 3) 4 5 (6 7) 8 (9 10) 11 12. This brings the movement, which consists only of quavers and four long end notes, to life.

How is it possible that in Vienna, where Nikolaus Harnoncourt, who was first a cellist, has propagated historical performance practice with his Concentus Musicus, an edition of the cello suites is published that ignores what Mainardi already achieved in the 1950s and also adorns itself with the title "Urtext"?

No autograph

We do not know which bows Bach set himself because the autograph has been lost. Studying the copies does not provide any clear answers. The preface to the Wiener Urtext-Edition (Schott/Universal Edition) states: "Unfortunately, the slurs in most of the copies are very carelessly set." This also applies to the copy penned by Anna Magdalena Bach. Fortunately, the autograph of the violin sonatas BWV 1001-1006, which was also copied by Anna Magdalena, still exists.

A comparison of the two reveals: "While Bach generally marks analogous passages such as sequences and repeats in the same way, Anna Magdalena places the slurs differently in the corresponding passages. The copyist often makes the slurs too flat and ... too short, so that the beginning and end of the slur remain undefined. Occasionally the scribe omits individual slurs, elsewhere she adds new ones." (Schwemer and Woodfull-Harris, text volume to the edition of the 6 Suites a Violoncello Solo senza Basso in Verlag Bärenreiter, BA 5215, p. 6) The old sources can therefore not be of much help in the search for suitable bowings.

In the Schott edition, Mainardi's analysis is set in small print under each line. This makes it less suitable for performances. It would be of great benefit if there were an edition with Mainardi's bowings, but with his formal analysis in a separate booklet.

Roman Melish performed with his fellow musicians at the festival last year. Song Basel performed. This also supports him in his German-Ukrainian song recitals (Red. the SMZ has reported on this). He is currently planning several concerts in Kyiv to mark the anniversary of the Russian invasion.

 How are you doing?

I am still alive. I have a roof over my head, my family and my close friends are alive - that's the most important thing. I often heard Russian drones and missiles at night and sat in the stairwell with my personal documents in case the house was hit. That's what happened to Ivanna Plish, who was a soprano at the recitals. On June 24, 2023, the building where she lived with her family was destroyed. Now she is forced to rent an apartment. I also completely lost my voice in August.

How did that happen?

It happened on the way back from Utrecht, where I had sung at an early music festival. I don't know exactly why the consequences were so drastic. It was probably the general exhaustion after so many months of war. You can never really recover. Of course we all had to get used to the war, but at some point the body goes on strike due to the constant stress. Many of my friends also fell ill.

 What was it like for you as a singer to no longer be able to sing?

You've lost everything you've worked for all your life. At first I felt that I myself was lost. I also don't know whether my voice will come back the way it was. First of all, in consultation with my doctor, I try to sing in a tenor range - and take small steps. If it works well, then I can try again later as a countertenor. The first few weeks were hard when I wasn't allowed to speak either. Especially when I was with friends. I couldn't share my feelings. That was very difficult. On the other hand, during this quiet time, I listened more and observed more - people on the street or trees in the wind. I paid attention to things that I normally never pay attention to.

What role does music play in Ukraine?

Sometimes I feel no hope. Music is good, but our soldiers need more weapons. And they also need other soldiers to replace them. There are soldiers who have been at war for 18 months or more without interruption. Since Russia occupied Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine in 2014, we have been in a constant state of war. Those who come home need help. They need to be resocialized. Music can help with this so that they can develop normal feelings again. Taras Stoliar, who fought at the front and accompanied our song recitals on the bandura, is now involved in looking after the troops and plays Metallica songs such as Nothing Else Matters for the frontline soldiers. That helps enormously with morale. It's also a way of showing them appreciation. At my last concert, I sang for mothers whose sons had died in the war. The mother of a distinguished pilot was crying for her son. But through the music she felt that she was not alone in her grief. We never forget that your son died so that we may still live.

There are no signs that the war will end soon. February 24 marks the second anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Are you disillusioned?

Of course I believed that the war would end sooner. But it's no use thinking about it - I can't influence it. I have to do something. I can donate, I can also share the truth with friends abroad to raise awareness. And thank the army for what they do for us. I'm also afraid of having to go to the front myself. But we need people there. Our enemy Russia has more people. For Putin, human lives are not important. In Ukraine, every single life counts. I believe we will win - I just don't know how long it will take. And how many more people will have to die. It's actually a miracle that we've been resisting for so long. We have a strong army. Above all, however, we have strong morale and a great sense of togetherness.

Now you are planning a few concerts to mark the anniversary of the Russian invasion. On March 1, 3 and 7 in Kyiv. What is it like for you to prepare these concerts?

It's nice to prepare something, even if we never know what tomorrow will bring. Will we still be alive? I don't know, but we have to look ahead. We will give three concerts in Kyiv with vocal quartets by Johannes Brahms and the Swiss composer Hans Huber, which we will combine with works by Ukrainian composers. We will organize all of this. And hope that it can take place. We also don't know whether we will have electricity and be healthy. But the concerts would be important for us - and of course for our audience.

How important are these concerts and the support of Lied Basel for you?

That means a lot to me. One of Russia's goals is to make Ukrainians feel alone. The Russians want to break our morale by attacking the civilian population. The attention and support from Basel helps us not to feel alone. Of course, we sometimes feel completely exhausted and hopeless. But a project like this keeps hope high. We can also draw on our concert in Basel on April 21, 2023 for a long time to come. That was a light in the darkness. And we still need this light to be able to pass it on to others.

Red. The interview was conducted online at the end of November 2023. The March concerts will feature Ivanna Plish, soprano, and Roman Melish, tenor, among others. Further information on the concerts can be found on the website of Song Basel.

Classical music receives by far the largest share of public funding. There are historical reasons for this: Even today, municipal concert halls, opera houses and symphony orchestras still primarily represent the political and economic elites that set the tone. Most public funds are tied up in infrastructure, maintenance and wages. For a long time, this seemed undisputed. In the meantime, however, the disparity between costs and the perceived social relevance of classical music has become so obvious that more and more people are asking whether a culture is not being kept alive at great expense that is becoming less and less important and merely serves the aesthetic needs of an exclusive minority.

A study by the Ecoplan research institute and the University of Basel has examined the unequal distribution. It sheds light on the situation with a view to the cantonal Basel "Initiative for more musical diversity", which is likely to be voted on at the Rhine knee in the fall. First of all, the study states that classical music is "supported with 90 percent of the public music budget". The remaining tenth is left for all other styles combined. In a press release, IG Musik Basel, which is behind the initiative, writes that this contradicts the Cultural Promotion Act, which gives the canton the mandate to promote diversity. The 2020-2025 cultural mission statement also sets the goal of "providing appropriate support" for all genres.

However, the study is limited to information on music consumption. The respondents, especially the younger ones, would most often like to see more pop, rock, punk, metal, hip-hop, rap and R&B concerts. Concerts by the Basel Symphony Orchestra account for 15 percent of all events attended. On the other hand, Basel-Stadt invests 74 percent of its entire music budget in the symphony orchestra.

Participation, relevance and openness

So far so clear. Things become less clear when we ask whether the promotion of classical music is seen as meaningful regardless of the actual use of the concert offerings. An interesting indication is provided by a German study, the Relevance Monitor of the Liz Mohn Center and the Institute for Cultural Participation Research. According to this, an overwhelming majority of Germans are "completely or rather of the opinion that theater offerings (spoken theater, classical concerts, musicals, opera, ballet, dance) should be preserved for future generations, even if they hardly or not at all use them themselves".

The German population therefore legitimizes "high culture" not on the basis of its concrete use, but on the basis of its cultural relevance. It can be assumed that the results would be similar in Switzerland. Another interesting result of the monitor: younger respondents under the age of 30 said "with above-average frequency that offers in theaters are not aimed at people like them, that they feel out of place there and do not know how to behave properly".

The Basel initiative for more musical diversity demands that "independent, non-institutional music creation must be supported with at least one third of the annual music budget" in future. However, independent music creation also includes classical music projects. Acceptance of the initiative would therefore by no means mean that pop, rock, rap and so on would receive increased support.

Real estate and jobs cannot simply be dismantled. If we want to eliminate the discrimination against pop, rock, rap and so on in the public funding pots, the solution can only be to open up stages, rehearsal rooms, orchestras, recording studios and other services, which are still almost exclusively used for classical music, to productions of all styles. This would also be consistent in terms of state policy. The public sector should provide neutral means of production and not favor styles.

At the beginning of March, the Upper Valais will once again be transformed into a hotspot for new music: Swiss and international acts will provide a fascinating insight into the diverse work of the contemporary music scene in a concentrated form.

This year's festival will take place over three weekends and a total of eight days: experimental chamber music concerts will be held at Leuk Castle (March 1 and 2), acousmatic concerts at MEbU (Münster Earport) in Goms (March 8, 9 and 10), and concerts focusing on newly illuminated folk songs with the Upper Valais Folk Song Choir in Kippel, Eischoll and Reckingen on March 15, 16 and 17.

The 17th edition of the festival will feature Swiss free jazz greats Manuel Mengis and Hans-Peter Pfammatter, Flo Stoffner, Lionel Friedli, Isa Wiss, Klara Germanier, Conradin Peter Zumthor, Yannick Barman, Cyril Régamey, Ensemble ö!, Leuker writer Rolf Hermann and Spanish percussionist Luis Tabuenca in a trio with Ulrike Mayer-Spohn and Javier Hagen.

Ars Electronica

The Ars Electronica Forum Valais Selection Concerts, which will take place for the 9th time in 2024 and are curated and performed by Simone Conforti (IRCAM Paris), will take place for the second time at the MEbU (Münster Earport) in Goms. 23 new works by 25 composers from 17 countries will receive their world premiere or Swiss premiere.

The Forum Valais is an international festival for new music that takes place annually in Valais. Since 2006, the Forum Valais has co-produced over 300 world premieres and presented works by over 500 composers from all over the world, including Stockhausen's Helicopter string quartet together with the Arditti Quartet, André Richard and Air Glaciers, Holligers Alp-Cheer and Cod.Acts Pendulum Choir. Regular guests at the festival include ensembles such as Ensemble Recherche, Klangforum Wien, UMS'nJIP and Ensemble Modern.

The complete festival program is available online at http://forumwallis.ch to find.

Hanspeter Künzler: How did you grow up?
MICHAEL Our parents were musicians, our mother was a cellist and had a lot to do with early musical education, our father was a pianist and director of the music school in Basel. So we grew up with music, especially classical music.

You couldn't have a more musical environment.
FLORIAN Yes, well, we were always around music, I would say. In terms of attitude, the mix was typical of our parents' generation. A humanist upbringing, growing up in the educated middle classes and a dash of hippie. Classically oriented, but always open-minded.

Hippie - you've also heard Jimi Hendrix?
FLORIAN Haha, it was just a shot of hippie - I'd say it stopped at the Cologne concert. No, they were very humanistically educated, played chamber music as children, Schumann and so on, and opened up to Django Reinhart and Keith Jarrett. But it didn't bother us. They were certainly a bit more open-minded than the generation before them, who took a more dogmatic view of things, I think.

MICHAEL There was enthusiasm for everything - light music from an earlier generation was also very present, the Comedian Harmonists, plus enthusiasm for groove and songs. My mother was very interested in the music of foreign peoples. African music in particular. She was enthusiastic about it and also had records.

When did you take music lessons?
MICHAEL Originally, we had piano lessons with our father from time to time. You kind of grew into it. I can't remember a starting shot.

FLORIAN Yes, I remember. In kindergarten at Christmas, the question came up: Who can offer something? I thought: My father plays the piano, so of course I can do that too. I came home, said I'd play something - and somehow it was clear that, if anything, we'd play something together. My parents' jaws dropped, they really didn't need that, but they humbly accepted it. That was perhaps the starting signal. I would say that a lot of it was their own doing. The parents were rather defensive, not in terms of quality, but in terms of pushing things along. We often said: we want to, and they supported us generously.

What do they think of the music you're making now?
MICHAEL I don't want to insinuate anything, but I do believe that our music today has parameters that can also appeal to people with a classical background, a certain aspiration to be reasonably well constructed, reasonably virtuosic, certain skills, a certain musicality. I think they can do a lot with that. If we made shallow pop, they probably wouldn't be able to do as much with it. Our music, even if it sounds different, still has a close connection to the aesthetics of classical music. They always come and they always love it.

FLORIAN Ever since I can remember, we had a room together as twins, made music together, it was always part of life and of the communication between us. There were always lots of instruments. We always used them too, like toys.

Even a drum kit?
FLORIAN Haha, they were rather skeptical about it at first. But there were always bits and pieces lying around. There were all sorts of things, accordions, balalaikas, banjos, we just picked them up and tried them out. You can also put together drums from other things. No, you can't say that I played drums out of rebellion.

What did you play together as 10-year-olds?
FLORIAN We were always jazz freaks. Our parents had a small collection that ranged between Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald and Django Reinhart, the most modern of which was probably Bill Evans. We've always loved it since we were little kids. It really appealed to us. We probably made music in that style, even if we didn't have any basic knowledge of it.

MICHAEL The other thing I can remember: We went to lessons at music school. I was still playing the drums at the time. There were various ways to learn something there, in addition to trying things out at home. In jazz, that's still my basis, picking things up by ear and feeling. When I think back, I understood things emotionally long before I realized what was happening. Learning by doing, before I understood intellectually. We both played piano and drums, which also gave the whole thing a slightly official grounding.

So you were already improvising back then?
FLORIAN It was like playing with instruments instead of building blocks.

MICHAEL We were like reenacting the history of jazz. The first thing we were enthusiastic about was Louis Armstrong and the 20s. New Orleans stuff, Benny Goodman, Fats Waller. Then it just worked itself out. My parents were in a record club. A new record came in the post every month. Bill Evans used to prank me. It was so different! It was a natural development that we imitated, following history.

FLORIAN We always had classical lessons, never jazz lessons. That didn't really exist back then. Our piano teacher was very open, her husband Gerald Bennett wrote new music and was a composer. She was extremely open, but she had nothing to do with jazz. Our drum teacher was a jazz freak and supplied us with cassettes up to Threadgill, Elvin, Miles, but he wasn't really a set player himself, we practiced classically

Weren't you seen as freaks at school with your jazz, when pop and rock were so exciting for many at the time?
MICHAEL Nena was very popular, Erste Allgemeine Verunsicherung - I found everything else relatively boring. Michael Jackson had more to do with jazz again. What we didn't get to hear as a child, for a relatively long time, was Jimi Hendrix and James Brown. The R&B scene wasn't present at all. Because we played jazz history, it came onto our radar relatively late ... We were able to get enthusiastic about the 60s relatively quickly. I can remember when you, Florian, with Agharta when Miles Davis came home, a completely different world opened up with the groove. We were 15 or so by then. We discovered it all ourselves, nothing was brought to us from outside.

Even today, intuitive understanding helps me ten times more than explaining everything to myself theoretically. I also think it's an extremely good approach for memorizing and transposing. I also try to teach this to my students.

How old were you when you started playing together in an organized way?
MICHAEL At 16 or so. We used to have a school band, it developed out of that. We were always looking for a bass for a long time, we always needed one, but that was a problem. We had a very intuitive, unschool-like approach, maybe that's why we didn't have blinkers on, but there were certain things we didn't know or weren't able to do. At that time, when we were 17 or 18, the first institutionalized jazz school generation came to Basel. They thought we were almost too weird because they were in the school thing. We went to Tibor Elekes' music workshop, he had a workshop like that, it was a place where we got input. In the end, we formed the first trio with a classical bass player who played jazz and was freaky enough to play with us. That became the New Jazz Trio.

How long did New Jazz Trio last?
FLORIAN Our first tour with Greg Osby was in 1998 or so. Thomas then joined us in 2000.

MICHAEL The new jazz trio NJT was the trio with whom we made the first CD, which I don't want to listen to anymore, but it was a milestone. It was also the trio with whom we did the first longer tour, with Greg Osby, the trio with whom we started traveling, that was kind of the starting point. When I listen to it today, I still see a lot of extreme freedom. Because the ideas came from us and nobody told us: you can't do that. I find that fascinating today. On the other hand, there are things that are missing, that nobody taught us.

When I think about it, in the 90s this very strong movement dominated, Marsalis and pianists like Marcus Roberts, they were very traditionalist. I have always explicitly distanced myself from that. For me, individual expression always comes first. That was much more important to me back then than playing stuff. Maybe I resisted that too much back then. But that could perhaps be seen as a kind of rebellious attitude.

Are there differences in the musical attitude between the two of you?
FLORIAN Perhaps the longer the more! It's also logical. When you grow up together and are always at the same stage, there's a certain synchronization. We moved out early, which led to different experiences and impressions.

MICHAEL It probably also has to do with the instrument. For me, if I can do something really well, it gives me freedom. I like to spend a long time with something before I can express myself freely. What I perhaps lack a little today is a certain basis in history that I can't fall back on, but always have to acquire anew. That can also be seen as a positive thing, that you develop a new approach to each piece and don't just replay the same thing over and over again. I started with the Band Vein In the last few years I have also arranged a lot, which probably has to do with the instrument, the piano with the orchestral approach.

The desire to keep looking for new constellations, not to rewind the same thing, is also evident in your series "Conversations", Florian, where you work with new casts every time.
FLORIAN Exactly. Yes.

Will there be another Vein album?
FLORIAN There's a bit of a standstill at the moment. A pause phase.

Have you always been in agreement within Vein? Are there ever arguments about musical issues?
MICHAEL All the time, actually. Right from the start, we never really agree. It's always a very exhausting process. But it's also a grindstone. Very rarely was it the case that one person said, let's do it this way, and the other said: great. It's a long process. But over time it is very fruitful, a lot of things emerge. And in the end we were still able to come to an agreement. A grassroots democratic Swiss band, if you like.

Do you know the novel by Michel Touriner, "Twin Stars"? It's about a twin who wants nothing more than to be close to his brother. He, in turn, wants to be as far away from his brother as possible. But the situation doesn't seem so drastic for you?
FLORIAN No, I don't know the novel. It's actually not that drastic with us. Vein has always been a band based on consensus. It has always taken a lot to reach consensus. That's also the reason why we feel like we need to take a break. That's why something like "Conversations" is a good thing, it's a breath of fresh air ...

What are your plans and projects?
MICHAEL Another solo album will be released in March. This will be followed by a tour, partly as a duo with Andy Sheppard. A project with a symphony orchestra will follow in May, let's see what happens there. There are various things waiting in the wings

FLORIAN The "Conversations" project is nearing completion. Now certain formations are ready to play. As far as we're concerned, we always had phases in between that we needed to clear our heads. Then you come back with fresh ideas and it's fun, and you have other inputs that you can bring into the collaboration. With us, it was always the case that we worked intensively and then had the feeling that we needed some air. In a way, you know each other so well that it's good to be able to bring outside inspiration into a project. I think that's important.

When you played with Greg Osby, you were still very young. How did that come about?
MICHAEL We heard him in New York and then wrote him a letter the old-fashioned way and enclosed a CD. Back then it was still by fax. The fax rattled again at 4 a.m. every morning. I think he was attracted by our otherness and our relaxed attitude. Today I still give him a lot of credit for that, he was a very established player back then. He probably didn't even realize that we were still at the beginning.

And Andy Sheppard? You've played with him before. Your connection with England is quite close. What are you particularly interested in?
FLORIAN I still think that England has a special approach that I find extremely appealing. It's relaxed. Kenny Wheeler, John Taylor, all the musicians in London who shaped the scene, it's a different relationship than just looking up to Miles, a different approach.

MICHAEL Andy Sheppard is old-school on the road. If he likes it, he does it. For me, he also sounds different from everyone else of his generation, and very un-American. It makes sense to me why Carla Bley asked him to play in her quartet.

How do you feel about the current English jazz generation, Comet is Coming and all that?
FLORIAN For me, it's a bit about attitude. There are people like Amy Churchill. When I asked her, she was immediately super happy to be involved, even if it's not clear what will come of it. On the other hand, there's Theon Cross, who I asked for "Conversations", I had his private email, but he doesn't even open my email.

In the scene, they look madly at it: Is it in our vibe or not, and if it's not, then they're not interested. There are those for whom it's important to be respected in their community, and others who are more interested in the artistic side. I also asked Oren Marshall and he said yes within two minutes. It's funny to see how different the mentality is. Sometimes it's not so easy to get in touch with musicians from younger generations.

Is there anything else to say about siblings?
MICHAEL I do have the feeling that when you start to build stuff up and are confronted with a lot of resistance, you have more of a boost with two people. You can split things up, which is certainly not a disadvantage.

What are you listening to right now? Hot tips?
FLORIAN I check out a lot of stuff, anything that catches my eye.

MICHAEL There are always things from the students at the university, so I get great input from the younger generation, things that I wouldn't otherwise know. The other thing: We have a history with classical contemporary music, with complex things, and I'm noticing more and more: the emotional value of listening to something like this for "fun", the emotional component, is becoming more and more important. I'm realizing that in my development I'm moving away from more cerebral stuff.

 

Hanspeter Künzler: What are you both doing at the moment?
CHRISTOPH I teach 2 ½ days at the ZHdK (Zurich University of the Arts). It's not my purpose in life, but I really enjoy doing it. It's a great basis for being free to make music afterwards. The interaction with the students is extremely inspiring. You get to hear a lot of things that you wouldn't otherwise. You can try things out with them and vice versa. You have your finger on the pulse of the jazz scene for 20 years. But I also have my own research and developments that are not related to the school.

I've just had a strong jazz phase, straighter. Now I'm starting to do more with electronics and loops again, which I used to do a lot. I have three bands of my own, Reflections, Root Area and Blossoms. I'm also part of the house quartet, but I don't have to organize anything for them. Then I also have a list of bands where I'm a sideman. My current priority is the new Reflections album.

SIMON I can also start with education, I've been at the ZHdK for a few years now, but I always taught on the side before that. I've always found that it's important to pass on knowledge immediately so that it's immediately renewed. That you don't sit on it so that it continues to play a part in the process. Now at the ZHdK, I'm less involved in creative music/sounds and more in audiovisual design, where I can pass on my passion for noise and sound and sound aesthetics.

Otherwise I'm mainly at home in electronics, but I also have a history of guitars and punk bands and other music. I got into experimental music very early on thanks to people like Joke Lanz, Dave Phillips and Rudolf Eb.er (sic). The whole Schimpfluch group opened a window to the world for me back then. Also through radio work, which they were always involved in. I'm currently working on solo pieces where I perform alone, as well as interdisciplinary projects with dance/film/whatever. Also with various musicians as duos and trios.

How did you grow up?
CHRISTOPH In the Zurich lowlands, Niederhasli. We both went to Bülach to the Kanti. There was a youth center in Niederhasli where you could make music.

SIMON Then we moved from the Zurich agglomeration to the countryside in Rafzerfeld, where the FDP is the far-left opposition.

Did you listen to music at home?
SIMON We sat in front of the speakers and recorded the hit parade on cassettes.

CHRISTOPH There was already music playing in the house. From light classical to ABBA and so on. My father played music all the time, especially the whistle. I asked myself where I got into improvising - as a jazz musician, that's my core business, what you do all the time. Then I remembered my father driving in the car, it was really annoying, he was always whistling, not things that were there, but looking for his own melodies. He played the trumpet, now the euphonium. He also played the didgeridoo and alphorn.

How did you get into jazz? In 1977 there probably weren't that many jazz fans at school?
CHRISTOPH No. I had a sax teacher who pushed me in that direction, improvisation. And there was the Big Band 71 in Niederhasli, older gentlemen who played great music to my ear, and I was allowed to play with them. That was a great experience. Later on, we had various bands at grammar school. I was always drawn to improvising. Why sax? I wanted to play the sax when I was 8 years old. I suppose it must have given me a kick somehow, but unfortunately I can't remember why.

You, Simon, learned to play the guitar to set yourself apart from your brother?
SIMON There was a guitar in the house and my mother played it. But there was a similar process. At first I always looked up to Christoph, he practiced a hell of a lot! Four years is a lot of time, a big age difference when you're that young. I learned classical guitar and once had a teacher who showed me how to improvise before I ended up with the electric guitar. I've always looked at what Christoph is doing. Especially Felix Utzinger, who he played with and who then became my guitar teacher. We played some funk fusion for a while, a strange style. For a while I was in a high school band with Nik Bärtsch and Kaspar Rast. But then I realized, hey, I have to do something else.

We were also socialized differently. The Bachenbülach youth center, autonomous and punk, suddenly made a lot more sense to me. Letting the energy out in a simple way, with the guitar. That you don't have to make it so complicated. But in retrospect, there was also the idea that I had to take a different path so that I wasn't always left behind. That was very formative.

You were ten years old, Christoph, when punk turned into new wave, but you were already in the waters of jazz and improvisation. Did that affect you at all?
CHRISTOPH Punk quite a bit, too. What we listened to a lot was dialect rock. Especially Frostschutz. I also wrote my own songs.

What were the first records you bought yourself?
SIMON I think I'm really into Elvis Presley ...

CHRISTOPH Yes, and I found that very funny. I never liked it.

SIMON I didn't have much idea what else was around. A bit of my brother's records.

CHRISTOPH For example, you once took over the hard rock phase from me, AC/DC ...

SIMON But nothing electronic. When I was 16 in high school, some people listened to a bit of house, the first raves: What, that even exists? That's when I found punk and hardcore for myself. I realized: there's so much. Before, it's a mystery to me how little access we had. Out in the countryside, you don't have the right magazines, and the radio only played nonsense.

CHRISTOPH For me it was the dialect thing, I had a lot of stuff. Before that, Mani Matter, we listened to that one record to death. I remember buying a record by Urs Blöchlinger very early on because Chrigel Rentsch had written something in the newspaper. At first I thought the music was really weird, but later I found it interesting. I think it was important that I had the record before anything else, before Charlie Parker and so on.

Was it important to see that a Swiss man could make such a record?
CHRISTOPH Yes. My first record was probably something like AC/DC. Probably High Voltage.

One 18, the other 14, a big gap indeed. Was there a moment when you started talking about music?
SIMON Not for a very long time. There was a brief moment when I had the band with Nik and Kaspar, and you came to jam with us a few times. Not for years after that. We didn't see each other regularly either, even though we both lived in Zurich. We were in completely different places musically.

CHRISTOPH It was a time when I wasn't doing much jazz at all, but mainly free music and electronics with a neuro-modulator. We were actually doing similar things. I was very much into electronic music and oriented myself a lot towards things like Aphex Twin. That was a bit later, at the end of the 90s.

SIMON I started experimenting with sound on Radio LoRa in 1994. There was - and still is - an open format for sound experiments of all kinds. Sunday evenings at 9 pm. A lot happened for me during that time. I started cutting tapes, making music with Atari, live radio experiments, mixing stuff together from the mixing desk. Also the time when I opened the door to jungle and drum'n'bass in London. That got me completely involved in electronics. I came to electronics through experimentation, sort of from the new music of the 50s and 60s, where it was all about sound experiments, those were the influences for the radio stuff. The tape recorder as an instrument. Pretty soon you come to effects units. Via Dub then, of course, to the mixing console. The mixing console is still the focus.

CHRISTOPH Interesting! I always came to electronics via instrumental music. In contrast to Simon, who was often alone, always in bands. We got together, played, and everyone had their devices with them and researched how we could connect.

SIMON And us: How can you construct electronic tracks in a club context? The Bunte Welt der Zimmerpflanzen was a drum'n'bass duo that played tracks with samples. Fragments that were used to build tracks.

CHRISTOPH Funnily enough - that's where Simon inspired me - at some point, after I had been working with electronics for some time, I started to open up some devices, for example old Casio keyboards, solder them together and try to make sound machines out of them. Once I even had a band, Toy Band, where three people played around on my machines. I still have three boxes, big ones, with the machines. That must have been an inspiration from Simon.

How did you make the leap from Elvis to electronics?
SIMON Elvis was a child's thing, then puberty, then you change your orientation. That was relatively quick, after 12, 13. I think the youth center came at 15. Ironically, I was in Detroit for an exchange year in 1989/90. The family lived in the suburbs. In retrospect, I found out that this whole techno thing was going on in Detroit at the time! I had heard about it, but I wasn't allowed to go into the city. Too dangerous, too black.

Interesting, both of you have not accepted that the limitations of normal instruments mark the boundaries of music creation.
CHRISTOPH The desire to break out, to look for something different, was there for me from the very beginning, even before electronics. I combined a lot of 12-tone composition and improvisation. The band was called Nadelöhr, later Koi. We experimented a lot, away from the normal. That already started during jazz school.

Did you inherit the rebellious spirit from your parents?
SIMON I have the feeling, even though they grew up in the 50s/60s, that they weren't very rebellious. They didn't take part in the movements of the time either. At best, they took something from the newer forms of education. Anti-authoritarian upbringing was incorporated a little, but not explicitly. The mother was a clerk, very much at home, the father in aroma research. Givaudan. Food flavors.

CHRISTOPH That must have been something - he passed on the explorer gene!

SIMON And we inherited more of a sense of community, the need to be together, from our mother.

There were still phases between you where you talked more about music, maybe even had a band together?
SIMON We played together, but very rarely. That was always very cool. But we never had a band. There might still be a duo of brothers one day.

Simon, the first sentence on your homepage is: "Celebration of the Error." What do you think of that, Christoph?
CHRISTOPH Well, if I relate it to my electronic stuff and experiences, it's something I totally understand. With my devices, I've tried to create errors, unstable states and so on. Experimental electronics is often about that. In jazz they often say: there are no errors. It's similar in that sense. You can do what you think is right. But I wouldn't apply the "Celebration of the Error" formula to jazz so directly. Rather: be yourself, and that's a good thing.

SIMON Of course, that's what it means. It's not about looking for mistakes and then focusing on them. It's about taking technology as an open instrument with which you can do what you want, create what you want. That's a very similar statement to the one Christoph just made. "Celebration of the Error" is the liberation from machine thinking as a closed state, as something that you have to use in a certain way, that you have to mix. Certain sound engineers would go for my throat about certain things. But breaking conventions brings new impulses.

In my generation, people often say: Today, everything comes from the computer, that's not music anymore. Your generation, and even more so those after you, have gotten used to it, completely accepted the computer, haven't they?
SIMON There is a 100-year tradition of noise that goes back to the Futurists. The Futurists made noise instruments that imitated urban sound environments. They made industrialization audible. However, this was ignored for a long time or remained stuck in the elitist sphere. That changed with electronic music at the beginning of the 70s. We grew up with synthesizers.

CHRISTOPH After my first electronic phase, I became much more interested in things that a synth can never do. Any instrument with a person behind it can sound 1000 times more diverse and subtle than any synth. But I still carry the awareness of sound that I experienced with electronic music with me now.

When did you switch to the professional camp?
SIMON I had an amateur approach. I studied sociology and education and set up a recording studio alongside my studies. Once it was up and running, we started with theater productions, performances and film. Because we had to earn money, it automatically went from zero to one hundred. It was set up professionally right from the start. That was in 1996 and the studio is still called Ganzerplatz. We currently have two separate studios. Before there were three of us. Now we work independently, but still under one roof. My studio partner mainly does film post-production. I then said goodbye to commissioned work, especially advertising. That was well financed in the 90s. Then I had a break with a car accident. I thought: what do I want to do with my life? Not advertising! I did less film music for a long time, but now I'm doing a bit again. Today I get asked about the music, what I want to do with it, not about commissioned work.

CHRISTOPH I would have liked to work professionally back in high school. But I let myself be pressured into studying to be a teacher. After a year, I dropped out and went to the jazz school in Bern. After my studies, it worked out, a bit of teaching, as much playing as possible, the usual mix in Switzerland.

Simon, you often work with musicians from other countries, not least from Africa. How did this "globalization" come about?
SIMON At the end of the 90s, a singer from Côte d'Ivoire, Math Doly, came into the studio and thought he would like to record something. Everything went very slowly, but at some point we did it and recorded an album. We went to Côte d'Ivoire with it and promoted it. From then on, I was in West Africa all the time, especially in winter. First with Math Doly in Côte d'Ivoire, where I heard urban electronic music for the first time in Abidjan. Later, I went to Ouagadougou with a theater group, where I got to know the local hip-hop scene. Ouagadougou has always been a melting pot of different African musicians. This gave me access to urban music from the African continent. I discovered Kuduro from Angola very early on.

I'm a digger, I'm always digging for music. So I founded the Motherland collective with other people from Zurich (note on the homepage: "Motherland is a collective that presents urban sounds and living environments from African metropolises as well as African-influenced sounds and living environments from all over the world in the city of Zurich.") and joined Norient (Network for local and global sounds and media culture).

 

Many thanks for the chat, croissants and coffee!

Hanspeter Künzler: How did you grow up?
ANDREAS Music was not a huge presence in the household. The parents did play instruments, but very irregularly. My mother played the flute a little, my father the piano.

Andreas, how did you get into the trombone?
ANDREAS I don't remember exactly. Apparently, according to my mother, when we were still living in Zurich, when I was 5 or 6, we went to a Dixieland concert somewhere, open air, and then I said I wanted to learn the trombone. Somehow I was impressed without knowing why. In Rapperswil, where we then moved to, there was no trombone teacher at all. And because the desire remained and was intense, the music school hired a trombone teacher with whom I was the only pupil for years. I have the feeling it has to do with the sound, it's so malleable, close to the voice. You can play a lot with the timbre. I started playing in bands as a teenager. When I thought about studying music, I first went to conservatory and studied classical music. After graduating from high school, I went to California for eight weeks in the summer and enrolled on a course at Berkeley just out of curiosity. That was great, so I changed the whole plan. It was super cool to immerse myself in the world of improv and jazz - to feel the freedom of what you can do on the instrument.

Matthias, the first sentence on your homepage reads: It is widely known that baritone saxophone is the most beautiful of all instruments. What was your career like?
MATTHIAS I first had piano lessons in the 5th or 6th grade. Then I didn't get on so well with the teacher and there was someone in the class who played sax, I thought he was really cool, so I had either sax or electric guitar on my list. It was the 90s and there was a real boom for sax. We had student ensembles and there were always quite a lot of sax players, and later in the Kanti there were even more than enough. Not so today. In my memory, there was either a sax or an electric guitar solo in every second song back then. It's not like that anymore. You hardly ever find a sax in the hit parade anymore.

Why the interest in jazz?
MATTHIAS Jazz was much more present in everyday life back then. That also came from Andreas. But we were always a bit out of sync. When I went to a new school, he had just moved on. But I remember in the evening, when I had to go to bed, I could hear him practising the trombone next door. I found my time in the Kanti big band in Wattwil very formative. When I started there, Andreas had already left. He provided me with exciting music and also worked at Musik Hug for a while. I then copied his CDs onto mini-discs for myself. The Gymi Wattwil had a large catchment area from Wil to Rapperswil. With so many pupils, it was possible to run a fantastic orchestra and a big band. There was a lot of music there, and there still is.

Away from a center like Zurich or even London, were you perhaps a little freer from the trend pressures you are exposed to there?
ANDREAS That could be the case, yes. It was more about the community of people you met there and the exchange. External influences were therefore less important, I have the feeling in retrospect.

Was it the baritone sax for you right from the start?
MATTHIAS No, I started out playing alto saxophone. But all the places in the Kanti band were already taken, so I had to start "at the bottom". In my first year at the jazz school, I switched because I realized that I enjoyed it much more. For a long time I thought that the instrument was too heavy for me. I actually had back problems from lugging it around, but that somehow subsided. Anyway, I hardly ever listened to alto sax at home, only tenor sax. But I didn't feel like playing it. In my eyes, it was always associated with a kind of macho attitude that didn't appeal to me at all. Today I really like playing tenor. On the other hand, with alto sax I never really knew where to go with the sound. My brother put me on the right track: when I told him about my sound crisis again, he said why not bari sax? It was so cool and nobody was doing it? I went to the media library and collected all the bari sax CDs they had, about ten, and found them all great at home. I switched immediately. And I was at peace with alto sax again.

What were the first sax things you appreciated as a 12-year-old?
MATTHIAS Maceo (Parker) and stuff like that. Andreas was 16, had a funk band, they played stuff in that style, Parliament too, plus his own songs. Of course, we kids thought it was really cool that his brother had a band like that, and we listened to that music too. When I was 16 or 17, I listened to a lot of Miles, Coltrane and Cannonball. During that time, I did an exchange year in Guatemala. It was a musical desert, there was no one there with whom I could have exchanged ideas - apart from a German exchange student who I was lucky enough to meet every weekend. I got to know Guatemalan musicians through him and we made music with them every weekend. He had about 15 copies from the Real Book-series (by Hal Leonard), and we played the pieces up and down. I had 20 minidiscs with me. I just remembered that the other day. John Coltrane, The Night With a Thousand EyesI've heard that about a hundred times. During my time in Guatemala, I practiced endlessly out of sheer boredom. I arrived there and after a month the school had a three-month vacation. There were six siblings in the host family and they all sat in front of the TV all day. I would just stay in my room and play. There were moments when I was amazed that they didn't say: Stop it!

Didn't your parents protest when it became clear that you were heading for a future in a breadwinning job, namely bari sax and trombone?
ANDREAS On the contrary. Our job was still normal. The third brother does weird things, he's a paleontologist. Our parents were very supportive. Our father was already very into music. He may not have played that much himself, but he listened to a lot of music. They were very supportive of us learning instruments. For a while, we each learned two different instruments. They must have spent an incredible amount of money on it.

MATTHIAS And drove us to every rehearsal! We were the biggest contributors to our music school. I think Emanuel even played three instruments for a while. They didn't even charge us for certain lessons anymore. Our mother, who was a kindergarten teacher, was also very artistic and creative. We were allowed to have many hobbies. Music and Scouting stayed with us. Almost all of my best friends were in the Scouts and made music.

Have you already played together as brothers?
MATTHIAS In the Kanti big band for the first time, actually. You'd already left, but every now and then you came to help out because they didn't have enough trombones.

ANDREAS That was relatively late, I was 20. 4 ½ years difference in age at that time is quite a lot. If only because of the different technical level.

When did the first band come together?
ANDREAS We kept coming back together, even professionally. The first project as a small band was the trio with Rainer Tempel, the long-time director of the Zurich Jazz Orchestra, a pianist and composer, who put the band together. It was called Ersatzbrüder. He had two brothers, older and younger, who weren't musicians, and with us it was the other way around. Hence the name. But he composed the whole repertoire. There was a lot to read.

The text about the band Sparks and Tides on Bandcamp says that they are a band that unites yin and yang. This of course begs the question - are you yin and yang?
MATTHIAS There are areas where we complement each other. But in many areas, we're very similar. There may be things that one of us is better at and things that the other is better at. But I think if we didn't have a lot of similar interests and things in common, we wouldn't have made a band together. We sat together and thought about the direction the sound and the people should take and we agreed very quickly. If our interests were too different or too opposed, we would have continued to have separate bands.

Doesn't family ballast get in the way of discussions from time to time?
ANDREAS I wouldn't say so. You can tell that the starting point is quite similar, where we find access and where not. I've never found it complicated.

The sign of a positive, constructive family life?
MATTHIAS We had a lot of that. It was a very happy, positive environment - not just the family, but also our peer group and the musical environment. I didn't see any competitive attitudes that tended towards the negative until I went to university.

Competing that Andreas comes along in a Porsche and you're jealous, that's never happened?
BOTH: (laughing merrily)

MATTHIAS No, I totally begrudge Andreas his Porsche. I have my camper instead, it's all good, haha! Something else about yin and yang, we're talking about the band name now. I'm perhaps more the one who is bubbling over with ideas at the moment, and Andreas is more the one who studies a bit longer. I'm just doing blah blah blah, he waits 5 seconds and then maybe comes up with something that has a bit more substance. I find that very enriching when composing. Sparks, the flickering electronics, and Tides, the wide arcs and acoustic tides, that's what the name is all about. In that sense, it's yin and yang. Character traits from which we try to bring together synergies so that everyone can act and contribute from their best zone.

Has your goal or motivation or direction of interest changed in the last fifteen years or is what you are doing now the realization of something you have always wanted?
ANDREAS A bit of both. It's realization in the sense that I've always found it fascinating when people who realize their own projects develop their own musical vision in such a way that it can be put on stage and co-created by other musicians. Being a kind of musical motor and not "just", let's say, interpreting the music of others. I started late, played along a lot before, but only wrote my own stuff later. I always wanted to do it, but only started to realize it shortly after 30. Now it's becoming more and more broad and deep. I'm interested in different projects with different sounds. Always something that grows out of a certain constancy of activity. We haven't reinvented the world or thrown it overboard. But you need that feeling of rediscovery - that you can cultivate it.

A quintet with two trombones and gamelan influences (the band Andreas Tschopp Bubaran) is not necessarily something that immediately springs to mind.
ANDREAS Exactly, I'm interested in such different worlds of sound. I find gamelan extremely fascinating. And I founded the band to have a way of somehow integrating elements of these other sounds, of other tunings and other types of intervals, into my musical life. My projects are always very much about sound. Sparks and Tides also came about in this way, actually. The question was: How should the band sound together? Acoustic? Electronic? A mix? Which instruments? Who has the kind of sound we hear here?

What about your goals and motivation, Matthias?
MATTHIAS I've always had the urge to let my creativity out somewhere, to get something off the ground, and this has been demonstrated time and again in various projects. The first major project was the Miró project. Later, other things too, until the point came when I thought: I'd really rather do something where I'm not alone. With the previous bands, I always had to do everything on my own. I thought: If new projects, then only with people who are a lot of fun to hang out with. That was also the motivation to sit down with Andreas and see if we could do something.

What projects are you involved in today?
ANDREAS Sparks and TidesThe common thing, we're always active with that at the moment. It takes a few months to play until we have stuff again, but the creative process is always ongoing. Otherwise: with my South African-Swiss band Skyjack, which has been around for 10 years now, the third album is coming out in a week, we're on tour in Germany and Switzerland in February and in South Africa in May. The two continents come together in the band. It's the first album where I play the kudu horn. It's an antelope horn, a traditional instrument for signals actually, you can only play 2 or 3 pitches. I bought six and drilled holes in some of the fingers so I can play riffs. It's a new sound source that I enjoy. That - and then from my own stuff is the Vertigo Trombone Quartet, also a collective with three trombones and a bass trombone. One album is finished and we'll be on tour in the fall. All the musicians involved compose their own pieces. And another band that has been around for ages, for 15 years, Le Rex. Four wind players and drums. I also work one day a week at the Lucerne University of Music.

MATTHIAS Sparks and Tides! Then the multimedia trio with Elena Morena Weber and Jürg Zimmermann evolved into the duo It's Me? with Jürg, where we both also play modular synthesizers. I would love to do something with my quartet again, but I don't have the time. Last year we gave a concert after not playing for four years ... (Miró project, at the request of the Paul Klee Center in Bern ...). I teach two days at the music school in Zug.

Can you think of anything else about the brothers' music-making?
ANDREAS We are often confused with each other ...

MATTHIAS I was even offered a trombone job in a big band once ...

Hanspeter Künzler: You have a concert together soon. At the beginning of March. The start of a new project?
LUZIUS The concert is in Poschiavo, Puschlav, in a church. Laura has been there a lot recently and we thought it would be exciting to do something with organ and violin in a church. It was a good idea. The church is hardly used and it turned out to be mega exciting to work there. We met there twice for a few days and discovered something new for us by improvising. Playing in such a huge space with such a huge instrument, the organ, is exciting.

We started a process, we thought a lot about the fact that we didn't want to compose because it would take something away from the directness of interacting together and that we would also get directly involved or intervene in the sound. Then we started practicing improvisations, so to speak, and that turned into a kind of piece. Now it's time to record them. That will happen during this week in March, when we will also play a concert. It's a collaboration between the two of us, which we're doing for the first time. We had a band with a bass player for a relatively long time, but that's fallen asleep a bit now.

LAURA We never said we would stop. There were simply other priorities.

Making music as siblings - is that somehow different from making music with other people you've been in a band with for maybe 2 or 3 years?
LAURA The way I experienced it - it's probably different for all siblings - I would say it was almost a bit of a hindrance at the beginning. Of course we were very familiar with each other, but there were a lot of sibling dynamics that can sometimes be a hindrance. But in the good moments, it can be really great. At the moment, we actually only have good moments. We've grown older, shed our horns and been able to leave certain ego things behind us.

LUZIUS I see it in a similar way. We both have so many projects behind us, bands have come and gone, we've gained a lot of experience, we've realized that there are interpersonal components that can be applied to being siblings. That's where I realized that it's worth addressing things. If you realize that there is something in the room that is preventing us from making music freely, it is important to address it. Or that you create an environment where the interpersonal aspects affect the music. Then I have the feeling that close personal relationships can have a very stimulating and positive effect on the creative process.

LAURA I also think it's the component with us, we just grew up with the same music for many years...

 

And that was?
LAURA Roughly speaking, early baroque renaissance music and Eastern European folk music.

The parents played that? And the father also built the instruments, if I've read correctly.
LAURA Exactly. So we have a common ground when we improvise. We are certainly also trying to emancipate ourselves. As Luzi said, we want to develop a new music for this new project. Perhaps there is also a danger of falling into clichés if you have too much common ground. But it's definitely a good foundation.

How old were you when you played together for the first time?
LAURA As a child, from the very beginning.

When did you start playing the violin?
LAURA I was seven.

And you, Luzius?
LUZIUS Probably the same age. Seven or eight, something like that. Piano. As children, we might have made music from time to time. But then I think there was a rather difficult time. I started my professional studies, and you're extremely preoccupied with yourself. For me, I had my own struggle between ambition and the feeling of not being good enough. That took a relatively long time. That's how you do your studies, then your first professional experiences.

It then took a relatively long time before I was able to get involved in making music with Laura in a family context. I have the feeling that it was the first time with the band Esche that we were really able to meet as musical individuals and personalities. Before that, it didn't happen because Laura had been abroad for a relatively long time, was doing her Master's degree and was connected to the scene. And I had my own things. It was a relatively long arc up to this point.

With the Esche trio, was bassist Lisa Hoppe something like a referee or a bridge between you?
LAURA Hmmm. In certain situations yes, sometimes it was Luzi, sometimes it was me. We had a relatively balanced three-way dynamic. We always said: There's the sibling front, the female front and the rhythm section front. That could change quite dynamically. And, yes, when I think of Esche, what Luzius and I are doing now, taking the time to develop the music together, also compositionally, that's something I would always have wished for Esche.

The immersion. That's actually what I wish for all bands today, but it's just not always realistic. It's great when you have time and not everyone in the room comes up with something. For me, something like that never has the same musical power as something developed as a collective. The fact that I let go of the band a bit, Esche, probably had something to do with the fact that it wasn't as fulfilling musically - unless we improvised. Improvising always worked well.

In your compositions, as I think I can gather from the various Bandcamp texts, improvisation occupies an important position. I assume that this is precisely the reason for this: that you have space to come together.
LAURA Exactly. That's very much the case with my quartet.

I read in an interview with you that you got tired of the violin at 15 and then discovered other things in the youth club, not least improvisation.
LAURA That's the case. We formed a band, started with Eastern European folk music and then also made our own songs. After that, I had a phase where I traveled a lot. I bought a guitar and went to South America, played the djembe and wrote Spanish lyrics. I think if I hadn't started studying jazz back then, I wouldn't have ended up where I am now.

Did you have any role models on the jazz violin?
LAURA I took my studies very seriously. I actually only really started listening to jazz during my studies. I put it very much above myself. Today I really like listening to Coltrane or something like that, I can still totally feel the energy, but it's not what defines me. But that's another discussion, the pros and cons of studying music. I would say that if my studies had been broader, I could have spared myself a few detours. But maybe that's not true at all. Now I'm just where I am.

Luzius, did you go through a similar phase with the piano, a kind of punk phase?
LUZIUS Probably less. Although I did go through a phase where I immersed myself in the alternative youth culture in Langenthal, between 15 and 19. I followed Laura there. But the piano has actually always been a companion for me. In high school, I changed teachers and came to someone who was studying jazz piano in Bern at the time. I have really formative memories of that, he played the treasures of jazz piano for me in an attic room, the harmonies. I learned something new every week.

I must have been a really pleasant student, because I actually practiced. I was motivated. But I wasn't thinking about doing it professionally. Until after my A-levels, I had the feeling I was studying biology or chemistry or something. One day, the teacher said: there's a window open right now for vocational studies in Bern, so I just applied and, to my astonishment, got a place straight away. But then it took me at least a bachelor's degree to get an idea of what it could be like to be a musician who develops throughout his life. Looking back, I could never have imagined being where I am now. Nevertheless, the idea of working on a solo vision only came to me two or three years ago.

When you were 20, did you two talk about your musical discoveries?
LAURA We were like at a different point. I didn't go from high school to university the way Luzi did. I first did an apprenticeship as a nurse in an old people's home. Afterwards, I had to emancipate myself quite a bit to go to university. First I did a two-year preliminary course. I was already playing in bands at the time, lots of gigs. There was a lot going on for me outside of school, but not jazz. I almost had to force myself to study, and that worked because I'm very hard-working, disciplined and put things above myself. As a result, I think there was a bit of a gap between Luzi and me.

It seemed to me that everything was always so easy for Luzi and I was really struggling. Maybe it also had something to do with the fact that I'm a woman and Luzi is a man and all the gender-based differences, and then there's the violin and all the stupid comments from the teachers. That's why it was always clear to me that if I did a Master's degree, I would go abroad. So I went to Scandinavia for two years. That was great. Above all, I improvised freely there. But that was also when I started Esche. I have the feeling that the musical exchange between the two of us only began then. Before that, we had different realities.

What was the constellation that led to the founding of Esche?
LAURA It all started when I was awarded a Friedl Wald scholarship. Every year, a few students are selected who are in their final year of their bachelor's degree. They can audition and receive 15,000 francs. I was nominated, needed a band for the audition and asked Luzi and Lisa. I didn't think much about it - I just needed good musicians.

LUZIUS I was still inexperienced myself in how to approach something like that. Playing together for the first time. The following years with the band were exciting. At the time, it was the only working band for me where you had such a creative exchange over a longer period of time, where everyone got involved. It was a lot about finding compromises and balancing our needs in terms of our musical ideas. In retrospect, I found it a very enriching process because I was confronted with other ways of thinking about music.

But there was also a lot of energy loss due to the rubbing. Finding consensus is sometimes not easy. It was always part of the band that it was slightly gnarly, but that you shared a lot of beautiful moments. We traveled a lot, absolute DIY tours, Germany several times, Scandinavia, random places. I learned a lot from doing things like that together, holding my own. Especially when not so many people come, or when people are suspicious of us. With Esche, I was able to satisfy an experimental need that I wasn't able to do in the other projects.

So Esche was not just a musical experiment, so to speak, but also an experiment in communication? And because you knew each other so well from growing up, it was both easier and more difficult at the same time ...
LAURA Exactly. It was very intense emotionally. Sometimes there were tears. But also euphoria. I have to say, I learned a lot about communication from Lisa. She noticed ingrained family mechanisms. For example, she always said I would interrupt her, which I think I did less and less. Sometimes things you're not so aware of ...

How much time lies between Esche and these duo concerts?
LAURA The last Esche concert was in May 2021 at the Schaffhausen Jazz Festival ...

What you both do is incredibly wide-ranging. Don't you sometimes get a bit lost? Don't you know where your head is anymore?
LUZIUS I think I have my drawers. I realize when I create music, for example now with Laura, that you invest a lot of time in the beginning to create a framework. Lots of discussions about how and what the music could be. This project, for example, I associate very strongly with the place Poschiavo, with something archaic, with the mountain world. I see textures with which I associate the sound of the organ or the mountain world and create something like an emotional framework there. Then I can decide relatively well what fits in there and what doesn't. At the moment I'm involved in several productions that are running in parallel. You can't avoid finding an abstract intermediate stage.

LAURA I feel the same way. We also have different projects. They all have their own clear language, visually, artistically and musically. What I really like about the duo now is that we improvised at the beginning, recorded a lot, started a lot, discussed what we liked and what we didn't like. And we actually always agreed on where we wanted to go. The project came about very organically. It has to be like that. Not something thought up in the style of "I could actually do this after all". That's why it has the power, the expression.

A question for Laura. I found a quote from you in the Bund: "I'd like to be unreasonable, but I'm just not." Isn't music a means of overriding reason?
LAURA I didn't necessarily mean reason there. It was more about being good, wanting to be as good as possible. Not staying in bed in the morning, hanging around in your pyjamas until 12 o'clock, drinking coffee until 2 o'clock and reading the newspaper at 3 o'clock. The interview was two years ago. I have the feeling that I'm pretty good at that now too.

Diana Damrau is regarded as one of the stars of the opera world and is one of the most important song interpreters of our time. Since her early stage debut, the soprano has been a regular guest on leading international opera and concert stages. Her extensive repertoire includes lyric and coloratura roles as well as contemporary operas. Her vocal artistry has been documented on numerous recordings.

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The German-British soprano Sarah Wegener studied singing with Bernhard Jaeger-Böhm in Stuttgart and in master classes with Dame Gwyneth Jones and Renée Morloc. She is also a trained double bass player and choir director.

Sarah Wegener is much in demand as an interpreter of the classical and romantic repertoire as well as contemporary compositions. She works on major stages around the world with renowned composers and conductors and performs at numerous festivals. Many recordings testify to her artistic versatility.

Prospective students can register for the entrance examination at the ZHdK Music until March 1, 2024: https://www.zhdk.ch/studium/musik/ap-musik

Félix Dervaux (born 1990) studied at the Conservatoire National Supérieur de Musique et de Danse de Lyon and the Berlin University of the Arts and was a member of the Herbert von Karajan Academy. Within a few months, he became one of the youngest solo horn players in the Orchestre de l'Opéra de Lyon and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra (RCO) in Amsterdam.

Dervaux's playing can be heard on numerous recordings. He has won prizes at international competitions and has appeared as guest soloist and principal horn with leading orchestras around the world. A multidisciplinary musician, he recently made his debut as a composer with the Aichi Chamber Orchestra and the Orchestre Victor Hugo Franche-Comté.

Prospective students can register for the entrance examination at the ZHdK Music until March 1, 2024: https://www.zhdk.ch/studium/musik/ap-musik